antimony-medusa:

Yeah, I think this is a situation where we’re using words to mean something they don’t technically mean (see also, “lore”), and then this leads to us also having community arguments about what is acceptable, and it’s all totally unnecessary.

Cause the workplace comparison is a good one! If I was telling fellow coworkers how hot they were when they’d said they didn’t want to hear that, or walking up to the barista and saying that I wanted them to weigh in on the porn I’d written about them, that would be workplace sexual harrasment and, depending on the severity of the situation, literally a crime I could be charged with. Absolutely inappropriate to do, and I can’t express how extremely fair it is that streamers get to say no to that. I am FULLY in support of CCs setting those limits for their spaces and think it’s healthy and we all need to respect that.

But “boundaries”, as a term, is technically about controlling your own behaviour and people’s access to you. You set a boundary and say to your parents “if you bring up grandkids at the christmas meal I will be leaving”, or “if you mention [latest discourse] on my blog I will block you”. It’s about controlling your experiences via your own behaviour and the stuff that you actually see. CC equivalent is saying that any sexualization or shipping in their chats or replies will lead to a block or a ban. That’s them controlling their own experience and that’s A-ok. Asking a CC to weigh in on what sort of fan work they’re comfortable being shown, that’s also about them controlling their own experience and is totally fair.

Asking a CC to weigh in on what sort of fan work exists in general— that’s not boundaries any more, that’s something else entirely. The closest equivilent is companies trying to control what sort of materiel their image or trademarked material show up in, I think? Which is a thing you can do when you’re licensing your image, but isn’t actually a thing you can do with fan works. Celebrities get to say no they’re not going to appear in a commercial advertising an oil company, because they have a moral disagreement with oil companies, but that’s because the interaction there is a company offering to pay them money for their image and them declining the money. That’s not how fan works operate. The celebrity isn’t in a position to decline the money for their “image” being used, because no money is being offered, because the fan isn’t making money. It’s not a copyright/licensing situation, it’s fan works. The celebrity shouldn’t be part of the conversation at all, because they should never see that.

And like, there’s issues of impersonation or endorsement where it’s bad form to do something that looks like it comes from the celebrity, as though they approve of what is being depicted, which is why AI voice lines and deepfakes are being increasingly spoken out against. But man, someone writing Captain Puffy’s and PearlescentMoon’s cubitos kissing each other on Ao3 and keeping it on Ao3 is not a situation where celebrity endorsement or licensing or impersonation comes in at all. That’s a conversation totally within the fandom, without the creators involved. And I really disagree with asking the creator to treat all of fandom like their community, which they should moderate and like, control their image and make kids-and-advertiser-friendly, because that’s not how fandom works and also that is unfair to ask of them.

Can one or both of the creators say they don’t want to see that? Totally fair. That’s a boundary. Can they say that it shouldn’t exist in their main tag that kids check? I’m on the side of tagging things to keep them away from minors and people who don’t want to see it anyways, rock on. That’s a community rule. Can they say that it should never exist ever, anywhere on the internet? That’s just not how this works.

A) that’s not how fan works have ever worked, fan works are for transforming and celebrating existing canon, not for creator approval, and we should stop shoving all of them in creators’ faces or asking them to weigh in, B) “boundaries” is entirely the wrong word for what’s going on there, like you said. Cause is the mere existence of a thing in a seperate space infriging on the creator’s experience and reasonable for them to control? That’s what a boundary is, this isn’t. C) This isn’t even community rules that it makes sense for them to moderate! When you are talking about an entirely different space, cut off from the CCs, doing their own thing to the characters, with age barriers and trigger warnings built in, “boundaries” isn’t the right term, but also this doesn’t make sense as a space that we’re inviting creators into to moderate. This is a seperate space, and stories or art in it aren’t hurting people, even if the cc’s wouldn’t want to see that or even want them in their main community tabs.

So yeah when it comes to us enforcing our own community rules, keeping creator boundaries and community rules in mind, the mere existence of a thing does not seem to me like the end of the world. A lot of people have come out and said that all our work needs to be sqeaky clean and able to be shown in the creator’s chat, as though the creator is moderating the space and their personal boundaries are involved. And (listing things yet again, this is a post of lists), first of all there’s a real focus on sexualization in that case and never on things like family dynamic or kidfic or gore or whump that could also make creators uncomfortable if it was shoved in their faces. (But somehow when anyone brings up those “boundaries” everyone comes to the conclusion that something entirely off on the internet somewhere and never shown to the creators is not going to harm them. Curious.) And second of all, I just disagree that that’s a good way to run a fandom community. This is a space for fans, not for the creators, bringing up the “weird stuff” publically to creators is incredibly cruel to people who shouldn’t have to see that, AND it’s a bad atmosphere for creativity to always want the creators to approve things, fandom is for saying “fuck the man” and doing your own thing. Just tag it to keep it away from people who don’t want to see it, and filter the tags for your own experience. Keep everything in its own space and you’re good.

There’s tons of stuff in the fandom that isn’t to my taste, ranging from characters that just don’t do it for me to tropes that are active turn offs to people writing and undertagging things in ways that is concerning to me. We have got to learn to say “that’s not for me” and “that’s not for the cc” and put it away (block if you have to) and move on.